HIP DISPLASIA

[Darja]

We made a decision to let our gordn setters be tested for hip displasia. We went to veterinary doctor (X-ray specialist) recommended by Czech Pointer and Setter Club.
Grace has HD C - it is a sad news for us.
Aron has HD A.
What do you think about breeding on HD C bitch? We planned to have puppies after grace and Aron.
What do you advise me to improve Grace´s life?
Thank you a lot.
Regards from Czech Republic.
Darja

[Egle]

Hello !!
Congrats with Aron HD. Well as i heard from veterinary, they said that if dog have C, you can mate, because c can't hand down to puppies. So i think can think about puppies.

[yvonne]

having HD C does not mean that your bitch is in any pain now , she still can do whatever she likes to do , they can get very old with even HD D or worse , not each dog that has bad hips have problems with it
i give my boys glucosamine complex , a powder that goes through their meal , for the rest they have their normal walks/runs as Kimmo have with A hips , Bear really has bad hips , is now almost 11 and still goes with the others for a 1.5 hrs walk each day

as for breeding , i am not a breeder , but in the Netherlands you can breed from a bitch with C hips as long as the dog has A and the lines behind both are also very important , as the dog is A and all his relatives are C/D i would not use him , but i think the breeders who are on this forum can tell you more about this

congratulations with the A score for Aron

[Marcin]

in most cases HD C shouldn't give your dog any problems (at least until she's really old). so right now there is nothing you could really do, just feed her with some royal mobility or so (if she's above 2 years old). if Grece is still young (like a year or so) you can x-ray her once again once she's two years old as her hips may still change between first and second year of her life.

for breeding use only HD A dog with HD A parents, so if Aron's parents were not x-rayed or they were and scored below HD A then I would suggest not to breed. also, it would help if you know Grace parents scores. if you fail to to check these things there can be few displastic puppies in each litter, and this will surely worry their future owners.

good luck and congrats on Aron score!

[Darja]

Hey all,
thanks for nice replies!

Aron´s father has HD B (Zettertjarns Panini) - don´t know the HD score of other relatives, it isn´t written in a pedigree. Mother is HD A (Gipsi z Zelecky) after both parents HD A, 2 grandparents have HD A, another two weren´t x-rayed.
Grace: father (Aves od Semenacky) has HD B - parents HD A and mother ( Dyksi z Kratosickych strani) HD A - parents HD A. Rest of x-rayed relatives have HD A.

The problem is that HD results are not so long needed for breeding. As well, we got two pointer and setter clubs in the Czech Republic --- one of them started to used HD results in 2007!!!

Do you think that our HD C could come up because of breeding between relatives???

Thanks a lot for your answers!
Darja

[Jani]

I'm not a breeder, nor am I familiar with health requirements for breeding there. While the AKC does not require health clearances, it recommends them, and most breed clubs encourage them via their code of ethics. Here in the US, Gordon breeders usually get hip and elbow xrays, eye clearances, and thyroid clearance before breeding. It's important, as was suggested, to know the pedigree and if others in the family have been xrayed. Congratulations on Aron's score! And well done to you for initiating the xrays to begin with!

Jani

[Darja]

Wow! I like the breeding conditions in the US! Aron passed thyroid clearence a few months ago ( his hair wasn´t in a good condition). And he is ok;-)

[Helena Johansson]

Hi! I see that Arons father is a Swedish dog! I looked him up on our kennelclubs "dog database" and found out that Zettertjarns Paninis parents both have HD A. But none of his brothers or sisters are x-rayed, at least not in Sweden.u go to this side http://kennet.skk.se/hunddata/ and click on "sök hundar" and then you write were it say "regnr" the dogs registrationsnumber you can find out moore about Zettertjärns Panini. If you don't have the reg.number I can help you, just let me know! I also have the breeder of Paninis homepage adress if you are interested.

[Darja]

Hi Helena!
Thank you so much for the link! We looked through Aron´s relatives and we are such happy about the X-ray scored! Nearly all x-rayed dog were HD A! It is great.
Aron went hunting for the second time in his life on Friday. He was absolutely fabulous! Such a great field work I haven´t seen for ages! We are happy to have a dog like him...!
Grace started to used chondroprotective pills and we hope that she wouldn´t have any hip problems. We planned to pass the hunting-tests with her at the end of spring.
Darja

[Helena Johansson]

Congratulations to a great hunter:-) Dogs from kennel Zettertjarns are top huntingdogs here in Sweden!
Here in Sweden we have hard rules for breeding, If one of the dogs have a B the other must have an A if you should mate them. Not MUST have, but the recomendations from the Swedish gordonsetterclub says so. And I think that it's a good thing! It would be nice to know how it is in other countries, do you have any recomendations for HD when breeding gordons?

[Silvia]

Hi Helena
yes also in Germany in both breeding Clubs for Gordons you only allowed
to breed with A or B hips. Its a must, not a recommondation.
further all dogs in breed must have at least a junior trial with points
in high level (i.e. a 4 (out of 10) in pointing will not get you into breed)
you are only allowed to go 2 x for this test. this minor test also includes
a shooting test (3 judges are required at the Pointer & Setter)
LOL its, Germany and each and everything is under *rules*
Just heard a banned german kennel (manipulating hip results) is going to breed in Poland ...

[ereni]

Hello.
I WILL COOK EVEREYONE WHO BREED GORDONS WITH HD C , IN HOT WATER! Esspecialy a person who is a vet sudent.
HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, DESPERATION- 8 years I suffered with my boy with HD/D.THE WORST T thing I have experienced .
If you breed with Grace you have no feelings no heart.
I haven´ t written any text about how I lost my boy yet. I couldn´t. The pain was too big . But your text reminds me every minute of his last days, when he couldn´t stand up. He was just 8!!!!!!!! I hate irresponsible breaders , especially in Czech and Slovak Republic.


AHoj.
Citala som tvoju otazku ohladom chovu feny s HD-C.
Poviem Ti moju skusenost s gordonom s HD/D, ktory mal nelahky zivot a katastrofalny koniec. Varila by som v horucej vode kazdeho chovatela, ktory dopusti chov psa s HD horsim ako A!
8 rokov dokazal stat na nozickach.
Potom som ho musela dat uspat. Ver mi bolo to strasne, doteraz som z toho hlboko otrasena . Cakala som 8 rokov na to, kedy sa nedokaze postavit, pripravovala som sa na to, napiek tomu to bolo tazke, bolestne - 3x som ho bola davat uspat...az na ten treti som toho bola schopna. V pamati mi ostal pocit zo zabitia psa. Rozhodla som sa vtedy ked plakal od bolesti, ked vstaval. Urobil to 2x a ja som to nedokazala pocuvat.Doteraz som o tom neuviedla ani zmienku, lebo to nedokazem este verejne prezentovat ale Ty si k tomu donutila. Verejne budem pranierovat ceskych a slovenskych chovatelov, ktori su zodpovedny za sucasny stav gordonv v nasich koncinach.
Bola som s nim v Brne na operacii, nebolo mesiaca, kedy mu nieco nebolo. Ak mas miesto srdca kamen, chovaj ale bud si vedoma toho, co s tym mozes sposobit.
Naozaj sa mi nechce verit, ze nevies ake je percentualna moznost ziskana HD ak jeden z rodicov je pozitivny.
Je mi to jedno co si myslis, ale je na povazenie tvoje profesijne zameranie a chov gordonov s dysplaziou.
Mam tu inzerat, ze hladam pracu. Hladam ju preto, ze sa z toho nemozem spamatat. A ako vidim, je vo mne stale obrovska zlost na ludi, ktori produkuju taketo chore zvierata.Bola so bezmocna, zufala,ked bol chory ale uz nie som. Ak bude treba, verejne budem trubit do sveta praktiky v nasich koncinach.GOrdon si to zasluzi.
Renata
PS AK to vsetko prezujes a budes chciet poradit, velmi rada.

[Marcella]

Dear Ereni,

I can imagine how you must feel and yes it's a horrible thing to see your dog in so much pain. But the problem isn't breeding with HD C dogs..at least it's not the only thing.

Breeding is difficult and I do agree that there are irresponsible breeders, or breeders that don't take to much notice in hipscores. But even when the parents have good hipscores it's still possible to get offspring with bad hipscores like your handsome boy. When you breed with a dog or bitch that has HD-C but the lines behind it and the siblings have good hipscores and the bitch/dog you mate it to also has a good hipscore than you still have done everything to breed healthy dogs.

A bad hipscore isn't only inheritable, especially the first year nutrition, not to much exercise etc etc are very important. And unfortunately even when we breed with HD A and HD A.. there's still a chance that some puppies get HD D or worse.. But I do agree that breeders should look into the lines they breed from or to.

And I'm really feeling with you and the loss of your boy...