setter gordon over 69 cm in expo win is right for you?

[fazzi chiara]

in Budapest the players who won were in size for you?

[Gadhelic]

It would depend on the overall balance of the dog. Size is important but then so is breed type, temperament, condition, etc. I would not dismiss a dog JUST because of its size.

Carol

[yvonne]

i agree with you Carol , as long as they are of the right type , temperament , etc then height is not the issue to degrade a dog , all in proportion , i know very lovely big gordon as small ones , pelle is a smaller boy , our bear a bigger boy

[Leen Van Genechten]

Same for me,; size is not THAT important, balance & breed type is what I look for.
Of course, gordons of 78-80 cms are too big, but whether they're 60 cm (bitch) or 69 (dogs) doesn't matter.
The breed standard says 62 for bicthes, 66 for dogs.
We all know that you can use +- 1 inch, but that is NOT stated in the standard!
So if you want to be correct: all bicthes having more or les than 62 and dogs moer or less than 66 should not win???
If I, as a judge, have to choose between a nicely balanced dog of 69 cm or a not typical or not balanced one of 66, I'll go for the first ...
Instead of asking questions about height: what about colour (tanmarkings??????), angulations, typical movement (weight carrying hunter ...) ...

[Silvia]

He was a perfect winner on both days. You can measure him 66 one day and 69 the next
depends on the judge and what you like to get as a result for your own satisfaction :-)

[Marcin]

excuse me as this question may sound silly to some of you, but which dog is being discussed here? ummm is it pumba perhaps?

[Martinapippi]

I think that is not us or Judges decide which unlike the standard is more or less acceptable and tolerable.
if the standard says:
"Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog." (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/96), is considered the height defects and is not a minor defects compared to the lack of angles! if I were the judge will not choose a dog too high and even a dog without angles! a European expo there are many other wonderful dogs who have both angles that the correct height and so are STANDARD! I can say because I went and there were more dogs that conform to the standard the output will bob!

[Silvia]

Question : are you a judge ? if so - go and get an invitation for one of the next
big shows and than you do your thing. But what is the reason you are blaming
here 2 honorable UK judges?? I guess, they for sure have seen 1000ants Gordons more
than you ever will meet in your life time.

[Verena Forman]

Another question: went you there as visitor or exhibitor?

I agree with Silvia; it is not fair that you blame theese judges in this forum.
You blame indirect all other judges too, who gave this dog CC`s, BOB`s and Group placements.

I think you should accept the decision of theese judges!

[Leen De Leebeeck-Van Genechten]

I'm very sorry, but the lack of angles has got more influence on a dog's health than the fact that he or she is a fwe centimeters too high. Don't forget a gordon setter was made for hunting in the Scottish highlands. he won't have any problems doing his job when he's 72 centimeters, but when he has no angulation, his endurance will have problems, so hus muscles will be over-used etc.
And, can you explain to me how the height of a dog (i.e; until 5 centimeters above the standard) can influence the health & welfare of the dog? Because I don't honestly see this ...
and, just for the record: Me or my dogs are in no way connected to the winning dog/kennel from Budapest. I do breed English type, based upon solely English lines.

[Gadhelic]

Actually any dog can have the correct angles and be of the correct size but that alone does not make them a Gordon Setter. There is a beautiful black and tan in the village where I live, wonderful construction, great movement with reach and drive but it is not a Gordon – in fact it is a cross breed Collie.
A Gordon has to also have all the aspects that make up the breed, noble head, well sprung rib cage, flagged tail and breed type to name a few, as well as construction and the ability to move.

Height is an obvious imperfection to see from the ringside but until you actually judge the dogs you do not know what faults the others are carrying and opinions will always differ which is why different dogs win on different days and we all keep entering shows.

[Leen De Leebeeck-Van Genechten]

as an exhbitor, breeder and judge I totally agree on this!

[Liga]

"If I, as a judge, have to choose between a nicely balanced dog of 69 cm or a not typical or not balanced one of 66, I'll go for the first ..."

I totally agree, there is a lot more than just size you need to pay attention to!